Talk:Yundi

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I propose moving the article's title from "Li Yundi" to "Yundi Li"

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As suggested in the talk page (GA Review section) earlier, the subject this article featured is more notable (mostly known) as Yundi Li, especially in English-based sources. (thanks to @Aza24 for providing this n-gram viewer) Furthermore, the artist himself chose to go-by his first name (Yundi) since 2010, as shown here. EleniXDD※Talk 14:55, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@EleniXDD Per your last sentence (and this ngram), wouldn't Yundi be a better title? --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:13, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] That's a great idea, I should have thought outside the box! EleniXDD※Talk 15:23, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Li Yundi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: EleniXDD (talk · contribs) 15:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Aza24 (talk · contribs) 16:55, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Happy to review this! Best - Aza24 (talk) 16:55, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to let you know, EleniXDD, this is on my radar, but I may not get to it for a day or two now still. Best – Aza24 (talk) 04:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply] No worries, take your time. EleniXDD※Talk 03:39, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some standards to work on

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Hi there Eleni, this article has quite a few issues, but rather than failing the GA, I'm willing to work with you to get it where it needs to be. Since you're a rather new editor—welcome by the way!—I thought it would be best to establish some standards for the GA, before we move into more specific things such as prose & coverage:

Sources

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  • Sources should be reliable and secondary (see WP:PSTS). You might consider installing User:Headbomb/unreliable, which highlights sources which the community has deemed unreliable or not-very-reliable. Also see WP:RSP#Shortcuts. The following are unreliable sources, which must be replaced:
    • Weibo
    • Instagram
    • Youtube

Fixed

  • Sourcing standards for WP:FAC are much stricter, but for GAN this should suffice.
  • Sources need to be formatted consistently, at the moment there are some major inconsistencies
    • Don't use all caps in the title or author's name—use title case or sentence case, but pick one (title case is most common) for all of the references Fixed
    • Sources in Chinese need a "language=Chinese". Ideally, they also need a "trans-title=" where you give the source's translated title in English Fixed
Hi Aza24, thanks for your effort of reviewing and recommending me the tool, it's super useful. I have removed and replaced the unreliable sources. I have also solve the formatting issues (capitalisation) of sources, as well as adding translated titles for non-English sources. --EleniXDD※Talk 05:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General formatting

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  • Never link anything in a section header, i.e. do not link "Deutsche Grammophon" in "Signing with Deutsche Grammophon" Fixed
  • The infobox should stick to important and concise facts; we only need a single website listed, don't list the parents (they do not have Wikipedia articles of their own) Fixed
  • The lead should not have citations, see WP:LEADCITE. The idea is that the lead is a summary of the article, and since the article has citations, the lead does not. This being said, if there is anything in the lead, it must be in the article as well. Fixed
  • It's bad practice to have an empty section with a hatnote (Discography). Fixed
    • Ideally, you should give a brief summary of his total albums/singles to date here  Done
  • Images should always be next to relevant text. Done
  • Yundi's Chopin Year 2010 image is next to text which talks about his life pre-2001. It should be next to text about 2010 Fixed

Hi Aza24, thanks for the help. I have fixed interwiki linkings, infobox and image position problems. I will work on the brief summary for discography section. For the lead section, I have moved some of the citations away, the remaining citations can be moved after adding in the music style/pianism section you've suggested. --EleniXDD※Talk 06:23, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have just added summarisation for his discography, and listed its main article. --EleniXDD※Talk 09:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coverage

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I see four major areas for coverage improvement:

  1. Most importantly, there needs to be more discussion of the music it self. I would highly recommend having a something like a "Style" "Repertoire" or "Pianism". You need to have a place to summarize what he is known for, the repertoire he specializes in and his manner of playing.  Done
  1. Personal life. There is essentially no information on his personal life, save for the prostitution allegations. I also wonder if the philanthropy section should be moved here  Done
  1. His dissapearance. Yundi is known for kind of disappearing in the last 5–6 years (presumably around the time of his memory lapse). I see that you've even mentioned his "comeback tour", but you haven't explained/mentioned his stepping back from the public light. For instance, you don't even mention that Deutsche Grammophon dropped him (see here, also a really great source to use!)  Done
  1. Profiles/broad sources. At the moment, most sources are covering very specific events in his career: specific recitals, recording updates etc. You should be using and incorperating information from broader profiles such as these: [1] and [2] (archived here). Ideally, we'd use books/encyclopedia articles too, but it doesn't seem like much is available in that case.  Done

Hi Aza24, thanks for your hard-work on reviewing and giving construction suggestions. I have just addressed his disappearance -- in fact, as quoted by sources, his career was still progressing, and he’s still seen in public after his memory lapse in 2015, e.g. he had world tours after 2015 and had his debut in Australia and New Zealand in 2018. He disappeared during 2021 to 2022 was because of the alleged solicitation of prostitutes, and he was blacklisted in China. I have added the reason behind in the come-back tour part, "two years after he was blacklisted in China for alleged solicitation of prostitutes", see if this is sufficient for explaining the disappearance.

I didn't mention his first ended contract with DG, according to statement by Columbia Artists Management in 2004, the contract was supposed to originally end in October 2004, but extended till October 2009 to include CD recordings and DVD releases. And his album Noctures (released by EMI) was recorded in Nov 2009, shows that his contract ended and switched to EMI. Not sure sure whether switching contract is necessary to be included.

I will fix, expand and add other sections mentioned above. Once again, thank you so much for your help and advice. --EleniXDD※Talk 07:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have just added the fact that he has a cat (family member) and his passion in food, which he thinks it's closely related to music (with his quotes) to his personal life section. I have also moved the philanthropy to personal life section. I will be working on his music style (pianism), and I am trying my best to find broad sources, as well as magazines/books about him--EleniXDD※Talk 15:40, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have incoporated the two broad sources you've provided (thanks for finding them). I will continue to work on the style.--EleniXDD※Talk 05:23, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Aza24, I believe I have fixed all the issues you previously mentioned and improved the article's quality. Can you please check it, thanks a lot!--EleniXDD※Talk 15:48, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply] Thank you! I may need a day or two before I can get back to you. Best – Aza24 (talk) 03:58, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] Take your time :D EleniXDD※Talk 10:07, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] Btw @Aza24, I have a enquiry regarding to this article. Although Yundi's family name (surname) is Li (so the order is Li Yundi in Chinese), he was previously known as Yundi Li internationally and shortened to Yundi (his given name) since 2010. So I am thinking should his surname still placed front for the article's title, or moving from "Li Yundi" to "Yundi Li" seems better? Thanks --EleniXDD※Talk 12:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] Hi Eleni, I generally agree that the article should probably be titled "Yundi Li". It seems like he was mostly known as Yundi Li, especially in English-language sources. This n-gram viewer shows a minor resurgence in Li Yundi, but seems to prove that Yundi Li dominated for much longer and more prominently. Aza24 (talk) 17:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for the data, it helps a lot. EleniXDD※Talk 14:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] Hi @Aza24, could you provide me some additional feedbacks and reviews regarding the article, when you are available. No hurries, I am just worried that you may forget. Take your time. Lots of thanks --EleniXDD※Talk 15:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for your patience Eleni—my delay was vastly longer than I expected! It looks like some great improvements have occurred, I'm taking a look right now. Aza24 (talk) 05:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply] Made some edits myself so far. Expansion is good but may be too fragmented—we shouldn't have so many sections with 1–2 sentences. Sometimes the tone is a little unencyclopedic (see WP:Puffery). I'll take a crack at adressing some of these things tomorrow. Aza24 (talk) 06:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply] Thank you so much for the work and improvements. Lots of thanks EleniXDD※Talk 16:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply] I further did some minor fixs of interwiki links. Thanks a lot for helping to fix the wordings EleniXDD※Talk 17:23, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply] No problem. So, the Repertoire section has some nice content, but it very choppy (many sections with just one or two paragraphs. Its unnecessary to give entire sections to his performance of single composers, aside from Chopin, where there is clearly an emphasis there. Some thoughts:
  • Regarded by many as a Master in Chopin is not especially encyclopedic. And where is this "master" coming from? Think about it from a reader's perspective, reading that some one is a "master in Chopin" doesn't actually impart much information (what about his Chopin playing makes him a "master"). And who is he "regarded by"?
    • Instead, try to include a more nuanced sentence, something like "Many commentators/critics highlight Yundi's interpretations of Chopin" or maybe include a quote "Yundi is especially known for his interpretation of Chopin; [this newspaper says that]...
    • You don't need so many citations for these assertions, see WP:Overcite. 2–3 is more than enough. This goes for the 2023-present section as well
  • "Yundi is especially known for his interpretations of Chopin, Liszt and Prokofiev" – you just said "Chopin" already
  • Try to condense the Liszt, Beethoven, Mozart, Ravel, Schumann and Prokofiev sections into one. Instead of looking for specific quotes on each composers, look for more general observations to include.
  • I like the summary in the Discography section, but now its probably too much. Really we just need a few sentences that summarize how many records, with who and since when. Does that make sense?
  • The Awards and Honours is also rather choppy. This section may work better as a list.
Aza24 (talk) 01:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for all these detailed feedback. Unexpectedly I just caught a flu and now terribly sick. I will return to my wiki routine and fix these once I recover (may need some time). EleniXDD※Talk 17:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply] Sounds good! No worries, take your time. Aza24 (talk) 04:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply] Hi Eleni, I'm looking at the runtime of this review and thinking it should be shelved for now. Feel free to look back at these comments at your own pace and renominate the article. Aza24 (talk) 20:20, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply] Thank you so much. I will continue to work on these. EleniXDD※Talk 00:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply] Hi @Aza24:, I think I have finally resolved the above issues (my procastination :(!) and am now renominating the article. Thank you so much for all the help! :D Hopefully it reaches the GA quality this time. EleniXDD※Talk 08:41, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Article reads like a fan page

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@EleniXDD: Before you take this to GA, here are some preliminary thoughts: I have concerns about this article's adherence to WP:NPOV, particularly WP:WEIGHT and WP:PEACOCK. While much of the promotional language is technically cited, the article gives undue weight to overwhelmingly positive opinions, often from single reviewers, making it read like a fan page.

The article is saturated with glowing reviews like "heart-stopping beauty" and "flawless, dazzlingly agile" that represent individual critics' opinions but are given undue prominence without counterbalancing perspectives. Almost no critical assessment or negative reviews are included to provide balance. Even when properly cited, promotional language needs careful handling per WP:WORDS.

The article also suffers from severe WP:WEIGHT issues. The career section is bloated with excessive coverage of minor details like routine tour dates and trivial personal information. For someone who may well be only at the halfway point of their career, the level of detail is not warranted.

As it stands, this fails GA criteria for neutrality and would need substantial restructuring and trimming of promotional content before being ready for review. intforce (talk) 09:16, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, may you mind explaining the reviews part? Like I cited the "heart-stopping beauty" by Allan Kozinn of The New York Times. As for the "flawless, dazzlingly agile", I cited it "La technique est impeccable, virevoltante, en osmose avec le propos, noble et majestueux." from Crescendo Magazine. Like I added these review so as to include Repertoire section per suggestions (the Last GA nomination). The reviews I selected are from different reliable sources and reviewers. As for the career part and personal life part, I also added it per last time suggestions, as it looked rather empty at that time. From last time to my renomination, what I did in between was updating some details of the comeback tour (I added that as I saw reliable sources reports) and resolved all the issues mentioned above (in last time GA, so I am confident to renominate). May you kindly explain how it fails the WP:NPOV? This is last time reviewed version. Just to make sure, do you mean that I added the comeback tour details a bit too much (tho they are all from reliable sources? And my thought is like I am 'updating' the article to avoid emptiness, and as well as a 'comeback' to 'disappearance'/blacklisted) Thanks in advance EleniXDD※Talk 09:31, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply] I understand you've been working hard on this article, but let me clarify the NPOV issues: The reviews are properly cited to reliable sources but the problem is WP:WEIGHT. The article reads like a collection of promotional quotes because nearly every review cited is overwhelmingly positive, multiple glowing quotes from single reviewers are given prominent placement, there's virtually no critical or mixed reception to provide balance, and the sheer volume of effusive praise creates a promotional tone regardless of proper sourcing. A few positive reviews would be fine, but when the entire "Repertoire, technique and performance style" section is essentially a parade of superlatives, it violates neutrality. Compare this to other musician GA articles. Another issue is how quotes are presented. Instead of "Yundi's technique is described as..." which suggests general consensus, it should read "X of Magazine X describes his technique as..." This makes clear these are individual opinions, not established facts. On career detail: The issue isn't that you added content, but that much of it lacks WP:WEIGHT. The article includes extensive tour schedules with city-by-city details and routine concert appearances that don't represent significant career milestones. This level of detail might be appropriate for someone like Mozart or Beethoven with historical significance, but for a contemporary pianist, it creates an inflated sense of importance. Try reading the article as if you knew nothing about this pianist. Does it read like an encyclopedia entry or promotional material? The solution isn't removing all positive content, but achieving better balance and removing excessive detail that doesn't serve encyclopedic purposes. intforce (talk) 13:24, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for the detailed explanations and insight, I will study other GA articles as a reference to improve. I will shorten the too detailed parts in the tour section (I think I get you!) and fix/summarise the repertoire part more with a better weight. EleniXDD※Talk 13:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply] I have just condensed and removed the excess detail part in the career section. Now, I am studying how to summarize reviews in a better way and weight. Thanks for the advice. EleniXDD※Talk 14:16, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply] How are you feeling about the article now @EleniXDD? Aza24 (talk) 20:52, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for reaching out. I think I followed the suggestions and referenced many other musicians' articles (style sections), finished trimming down minor details and routine in the career section, and tried balancing the repertoire section by adding habit paragraph. Perhaps I am still inexperienced in handling this type of repertoire section since it’s my first time writing one—I still can't identify how I can improve it exactly. It would be better if I could get some more specific advice; I’m now really lost and confused about how to improve it. EleniXDD※Talk 05:44, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@EleniXDD: Thanks for your efforts on improving the article. I do still think, however, that there are neutrality concerns that go deeper than just sourcing. Below are some changes that illustrate how to tone down loaded wording. This list is by no means exhaustive, just representative of the kinds of changes needed throughout:

  • The article overuses sweeping superlatives that imply broad consensus when they are only opinions of individual critics. For example, instead of Yundi is considered one of the greatest contemporary interpreters of Chopin., it should read Critics have described Yundi as a notable interpreter of Chopin. Similarly, instead of Regarded as one of the finest interpreters of Chopin, Yundi is also known…, it would be better as Yundi has been noted for his interpretations of Chopin, as well as of Liszt and Prokofiev.
  • Direct quotes from critics are reproduced at excessive length, which overwhelms the prose and creates a promotional feel; these should be summarized with attribution. For instance, instead of "He has all that's needed in poetry and sensitivity. His touch is perfect—never heavy, as Biret can be—and yet there is joy, zest, technical aplomb, healthy drama, and unerring tempos and rhythms.", one could write American Record Guide wrote that his Chopin interpretations combined sensitivity with technical command. Likewise, instead of "flawless, dazzlingly agile, existing in perfect symbiosis with the musical intent -- noble and majestic", it could be condensed to Crescendo described his playing as agile and expressive. Rather than His unequivocal triumph is faithfully mirrored on his DG début album in performance after performance., the article could state Gramophone wrote that his début album reflected his competition success. You get the idea.
  • Promotional blurbs should be pared back. Instead of This documentary "captures the poetic intensity of this young virtuoso as he works with the great Maestro Seiji Ozawa to prepare for his debut with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra"., the sentence could be The documentary shows Li preparing with conductor Seiji Ozawa for a Berlin Philharmonic debut. Similarly, captions such as Yundi's Monument at Shenzhen Arts School, celebrating his first-prize in the International Chopin Piano Competition should be revised to A monument at Shenzhen Arts School commemorates his Chopin Competition win.
  • Several passages make sweeping claims about his broad influence that should be narrowed to reflect sources accurately. Rather than Yundi is the role model to millions of young musicians in his home country, and has inspired many to learn piano., a more balanced version is Chinese media have described him as influential for young musicians and linked him to growing interest in piano study. Statements in philanthropy coverage currently reproduce his own rhetoric verbatim, which veers into fan language. For example, instead of On 11 January 2011, before a charity piano recital in Beijing, Yundi told reporters that "Charity is just like music which comes from deep inside my heart. I can express my love for society and my country through my fingers, just like Chopin did.", a neutral summary could be At a 2011 charity recital, Li said he saw a link between his musical work and his charitable activities.

These examples show recurring issues: presenting single critics' opinions as universal, quoting at unnecessary length, giving undue space to trivia, and reproducing promotional copy. Beyond these wording adjustments, some of the biggest concerns are structural:

  • The level of detail in the career section is excessive, with city-by-city tours and minor appearances documented at length. This should be condensed to genuine milestones like competition wins, first recordings, and major collaborations.
  • "Repertoire, technique, performance style and habit" is not only too long a heading but also too subdivided. This material should be streamlined into a concise "Style and repertoire" section without unnecessary subheadings.
  • "Personal life" likewise does not require ornate subsections for "Foodie" or "Performance habit"; only major biographical information should be retained.

intforce (talk) 09:48, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Intforce: Thank you so much for taking the time to provide such a detailed and constructive feedback—I truly appreciate the care and effort you’ve put into the suggestions. I think I understand more what you want to bring out, its more about the tone of writing, right? I think I misunderstood and thought you mean the content selected from the sources is not accurate or reliable enough previously, and I thought I would need to do more source hunt from other aspects, which kinda confused and overwhelmed me. I will work on the following points you've listed, but I am quite busy on other stuff recently (for a few months at least), so it will take time for me to gradually improve, as it seems like this is a big construction process. Thanks a lot for the suggestions, and I realize I will need to pay more effort in paraphrasing and concluding the content from sources in the future. Much appreciated, EleniXDD※Talk 12:22, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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